July 22, 2025

The Trickster, Folklore & the Supernatural: Joshua Kutchin Explores Paranormal Realms

The Trickster, Folklore & the Supernatural: Joshua Kutchin Explores Paranormal Realms
The Trickster, Folklore & the Supernatural: Joshua Kutchin Explores Paranormal Realms
The Broadcasting Seeds Podcast
The Trickster, Folklore & the Supernatural: Joshua Kutchin Explores Paranormal Realms
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconYouTube podcast player iconRumble podcast player iconSpreaker podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconYouTube podcast player iconRumble podcast player iconSpreaker podcast player icon

In this conversation, Joshua Kutchin discusses his journey into the realms of the paranormal, exploring themes of UFOs, Bigfoot, and ghosts. He shares personal experiences and insights into the interconnectedness of folklore, technology, and spirituality. Kutchin emphasizes the importance of examining the symbolism behind paranormal phenomena and the role of the trickster archetype in shaping our understanding of these experiences. He also touches on the significance of food and music in the context of the supernatural, ultimately advocating for a more nuanced approach to exploring these mysteries.

www.joshuacutchin.com



Broadcasting Seeds Podcast Sponsers

For all your mobile power needs! For home or when your camping. ECO Flow has everything you would need.

https://ecoflowtechnologyinc.pxf.io/19VYO9

Secure High-Speed Streaming VPN Different Apps, Different IPs The Best VPN for TV, Movies, Sports and Social Media with Exclusive App Mode-Enjoying content from multiple regions simultaneously!

https://safeshellvpn.pxf.io/xLqJBR



Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-broadcasting-seeds-podcast--6402290/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:07.559
Year Joe, straight from the broadcast studio, and then the stating,

2
00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:11.080
this ain't no tread sound story. Soenter's prophetic encrypt the

3
00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:13.560
signals from the saddles of the garden. We did where

4
00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:17.399
the trok got secret snow parted microphone alchemists scriptures with

5
00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.480
a twist peak the frequency seeds in the midst we

6
00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:24.320
drop false like plagues revelations in the cadus, broadcasting truth

7
00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.199
while they trapped in surveillans wrisdom with a watchman's blade,

8
00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:31.760
forth what sound while your whole system faide blood moves

9
00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.640
that for love echoes in the pond sas quart soften

10
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.600
through the fault lines of time. We ain't mainstream, We

11
00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:41.000
ain't just streamed safer with the prophets to code the dreams.

12
00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:45.359
So with you tune in better gods your mind's broadcasting seeds.

13
00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:45.840
And were breaking the.

14
00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:46.880
Design of design.

15
00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:54.119
Yeah yeah, yo yo, Straight from.

16
00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:59.000
The broadcast studio, Gosha cut you in. Tell us who

17
00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.920
you are, what you do, and where we can find you.

18
00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.719
Be happy to This is sort of the airplane question, right,

19
00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:08.799
Like you know, you're locked in the airplane and people

20
00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:09.480
are like, what do you do?

21
00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:11.400
And You're like oh, you're a single serving friend.

22
00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.879
The question yea, how far do I want to take

23
00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:18.280
them underwater? How quickly? You know? Yeah? Author of speculative

24
00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:20.599
nonfiction is the polite way to say it. The less

25
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.040
polite ways that I write books about UFOs and Bigfoot

26
00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:26.560
and ghosts. Those are the three things that I see

27
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:28.879
seem to keep on coming back to that in Fairies.

28
00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:32.319
I guess been doing this for ten years now publicly,

29
00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:35.120
and a lot of my work focuses on the sort

30
00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:39.239
of interplay between folklore more and more often religion and

31
00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:41.560
the paranormal, and looking at how a lot of the

32
00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:44.120
things that we think are sort of novel iterations of

33
00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.560
the paranormal, like extraterrestrial visitors, are actually just things that

34
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.319
we've had since the beginning of time. I live in Marietta, Georgia.

35
00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:54.159
I am currently remote, as people who have seen my

36
00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:56.719
other podcasts might might be like, where is Josh. I'm

37
00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.200
currently remote in my home state of North Carolina right now,

38
00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.280
but I live in Marieta at Georgia, And I also

39
00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.719
play tuba, which makes up about a quarter to a

40
00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.680
third of my income. So jazz tuba is where it's at.

41
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.439
So all those things together starts to look a little

42
00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.280
bit like a living wage for a family, And uh yeah,

43
00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:15.879
I'm just really happy to be here. If you want

44
00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.080
to find out more about me, Joshua Cutchin dot com

45
00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.319
that's j O S h U A c U T

46
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.280
c h I N dot com links to all my work.

47
00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:26.919
There's an ill maintained blog, but certainly an event notices

48
00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.800
and an announcement show up there, and also a list

49
00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:31.800
of all the interviews that I've done, which apparently was

50
00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:33.840
a rabbit hole that you fought of you fell down,

51
00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:36.800
So God bless you for for chasing that white rabbit.

52
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:43.080
Awesome author of how many books? It's Tim, No, it's weird.

53
00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:45.879
It's weird to count because some of them I never

54
00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.879
intended to split, you know, like where the footprints and

55
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.120
Tim and I never intended to split. I want to

56
00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.840
split Eclogy of Souls so and then Ecology of Souls

57
00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.319
has like a third volume that's an appendix and bibiography collection.

58
00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:58.280
So is that really.

59
00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.800
About so tinish where it winds up? Yeah?

60
00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:05.000
Gotcha either way, folks, each is a rabbit hole on

61
00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:09.240
onto itself. I mean, there is obviously in this world

62
00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.960
of highest strangeness that we live in there's there's always

63
00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.599
blending and things rhyme. Right, Yes, it's a good way

64
00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.400
to put it. So with that being said, what got

65
00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:23.680
you into this world of high strangeness? Like, what was

66
00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:24.840
your gateway to it?

67
00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:29.159
I think, I think, you know, I'm always so disappointed

68
00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.199
in myself. Oh I get this question right, because I

69
00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:34.199
know so many people who were like I saw Ufo

70
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.560
when I was seven, or you know, right, I grew up,

71
00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:38.719
I grew up on my family's property had Bigfoot, or

72
00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:40.000
I grew up in a haunted house. And for me,

73
00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.639
it was just growing up in a household that didn't

74
00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.120
discourage these things. You know, I think really what lies

75
00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:47.360
at the root of it is that I was a

76
00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.240
creature kid. You know, Ray, Harry Howsen, and Stan Winston

77
00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.080
were household names for me growing up. So I was

78
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.479
a creature kid. I love creature features. My dad had

79
00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:57.840
a passing interest in Bigfoot. I found out years later

80
00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.080
he was subscribed to the bfr Own letter, apparently when

81
00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.240
it was still a paper newsletter that went out for

82
00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:06.240
a while. So, you know, so I would check out

83
00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.680
books on these different topics as a kid, and my

84
00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:11.479
parents would not you know, even though I grew up

85
00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.319
in a Christian household, were not discouraging of an interest

86
00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.879
in ghosts or Bigfoot or anything like that. And so

87
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:18.319
I would check out these books, and I would read

88
00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:20.480
these books, and on occasion I would, you know, grab

89
00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:22.920
one from the bookstore and have, you know, as my own.

90
00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:25.040
There is still a copy that I have at my

91
00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:29.560
place in my library at home of Jerome Clark's The Unexplained, which,

92
00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:31.839
if you're unfamiliar with it, it's a wonderful sort of

93
00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:36.680
compilation of yeah, just strangeness and also, in hindsight, such

94
00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.759
a good primer for a kid in middle school is

95
00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:41.879
really into these topics. So I still have that copy

96
00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.240
that my mom is prepared with packing tape. So that

97
00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.079
was sort of the origins of it is I was

98
00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:49.519
sort of always there in the background. And then circa

99
00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:52.959
twenty twelve, I was commuting an hour in and an

100
00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.279
hour back from work for a job at the University

101
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.560
of Georgia, and I started really listening to paranormal podcasts

102
00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:02.959
and really rekindling that interested mine and started noticing some things,

103
00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.959
some trends that I was like, Oh, somebody should write

104
00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:06.319
a book about that. And I sort of sat with

105
00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:08.600
that for a while, and like, is that me and

106
00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.879
I never in a million years and would have guessed

107
00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.360
that my first book, A Trojan Feast, would be as

108
00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:15.480
well received as it was. You know, it's funny I

109
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.839
just mentioned growing up with Jerome Clark's book and the

110
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.959
fact that you know, Jerry would end up reviewing some

111
00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:24.639
of my work in a favorable light is just one

112
00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:26.800
of the most surreal things that has ever happened to me.

113
00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.600
You know. It kind of feels like a kid playing

114
00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.920
basketball in the streets growing up and playing alongside Lebron

115
00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.680
or something, or at least getting edge by Lebron. Yeah,

116
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:37.319
so it really does sort of have that sort of

117
00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:41.240
weird headspace. The relationships that I've formed, you know, over

118
00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.519
the years, it's just nothing I ever would have imagined,

119
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.240
you know. So it's been I'm incredibly grateful for the

120
00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:49.600
journey that I've been on.

121
00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.759
So have you had any like personal experiences paranormal you know,

122
00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:56.079
the whole game?

123
00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.040
Yeah? No, I mean, you know, I've noticed this, and

124
00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:59.800
I'm interested to see if you've noticed it too, because

125
00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:01.959
I've sort of noticed this as a trend, Like there's

126
00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.360
the immediacy of the event and then it has sort

127
00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.079
of has a half life, and like the farther away

128
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:08.439
you get from it, the more you're like, well, did

129
00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:11.000
that really? Was that? Really that weird? Like it could

130
00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.360
have been this, and it could have been that, and

131
00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:13.879
like you sort of talk yourself out of it, and

132
00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.720
I started, I finally like put together a word document

133
00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:20.920
of like all the strange things of varating degrees that

134
00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:23.399
happened to me, just so I could remember them. So, yeah,

135
00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.439
my appearents added onto their house I would say probably

136
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.279
maybe around nineteen ninety or so. And during that entire

137
00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:33.000
construction process, we would my mom and I especially would

138
00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.399
find stacks of four quarters in like random places, by

139
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.519
which I mean like a classic example that I use

140
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.600
is this big, like this big thick dictionary like can

141
00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.319
remember the actual like big thick dictionaries, pulled it off

142
00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.560
the wall and behind it as a stack of four quarters,

143
00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:50.279
you know, and then a little while later we'd find

144
00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:52.360
it like on top of the fridge or like behind

145
00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.639
a cup that we hadn't used in years in one

146
00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:57.319
of the cupboards, and it was just really odd, and

147
00:06:57.399 --> 00:06:58.800
like you know, at the time, we were just like, well,

148
00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.600
that's kind of strange. I wonder, you know what's up

149
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.480
with that. But you know, looking back with a fourteen's

150
00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.800
eye all these years later, it's like, oh, that's kind

151
00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:10.439
of poltergeist fery sort of activity in a way. And

152
00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:12.920
you know the fact that the house was being being

153
00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.600
updated is put some sort of elemental state. So that

154
00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.360
I've had some interesting ghost encounters. Probably saw a full

155
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.639
bodied apparition of a Civil War soldier, young young boy,

156
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.399
and had a door slammed open in my face at

157
00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:36.240
Waverly Hills Sanitarium. Some some bigfoot adjacent activity is the

158
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:40.560
way that I would describe at footsteps. A rock that

159
00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.680
was moved behind my car on my honeymoon in North Georgia,

160
00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.319
which didn't really after I was whooping and hollering like

161
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.240
an idiot and didn't really seem to come in from anywhere.

162
00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.519
There's basketball sized rock behind one of my tires, the

163
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:53.839
latest thing to have happened to me. So I've been

164
00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.480
doing a lot more field work over the past two years,

165
00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.600
and I've had some you know, going these investigations to

166
00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.160
gone ghost hunting, and it's like most of it's like

167
00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:04.879
staring at the dry wall for two or three hours.

168
00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.319
But I've had a couple of interesting things happen here

169
00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:10.480
and there, some light phenomenon. I would have to say,

170
00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:12.279
the most interesting thing that's happened to me lately was

171
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:14.399
I was doing an outing last mayze as May of

172
00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.000
twenty twenty four in North Georgia at a big Foot

173
00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.839
hot spot and I was sitting around the campfire with

174
00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:24.399
several others And to clarify where we are, we're about

175
00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.199
fifteen minutes over private land that we had permission to

176
00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.920
access into the back of a national forest down here,

177
00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:36.039
so nobody anywhere around, no public roads and all. And

178
00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:39.279
we're sitting around the campfire with our cars on either side.

179
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.759
Everybody's accounted for in my field of view, and we

180
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.320
hear a car door slam. And what's interesting about that

181
00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:46.480
to me is that because I looked at the person

182
00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:48.519
one of the other people across the campfire and I said,

183
00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.360
did you hear And they said a car door slam? Yeah,

184
00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.240
I absolutely did. And nobody else really seemed to grasp

185
00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:55.559
the importance of that, because I feel like it was

186
00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:59.279
kind of for me because it's a really obscure thing, right, like, yeah,

187
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.799
it's just to keep me so I keep going. I'm

188
00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:06.200
gonna wal it's a John Keel observation. You know, car

189
00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:08.480
door slams and baby cries are things that he associated

190
00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:10.799
with quote unquote monster accounts. And it's also like a

191
00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.159
Ron Moorhead association because I think that they noticed that

192
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.480
at this year Insight too. So it's like it felt

193
00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.039
like it was made for me, you know, and so

194
00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.320
like I don't feel like anybody else quite grasped the

195
00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:22.440
magnitude of that. And I'm not saying that in terms

196
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.159
of like bragging about it. I'm saying that in terms of, like, oh,

197
00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.399
I feel like that was just for Josh, you know.

198
00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:30.600
Yeah, yeah, that's that's so bizarre because I was just

199
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.200
so I'm you know, I'm constantly working on episodes, and

200
00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:38.320
one of the upcoming episodes was Whistling in the Woods,

201
00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:42.159
right or so, so it kind of morphed into strange

202
00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.679
sounds in the woods, but whistling was one of them,

203
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:48.720
but one of them that happened fairly consistently. Isn't just

204
00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.159
like doors, it's car doors.

205
00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:54.279
Yeah, And it's well, here's so this is the way

206
00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:58.320
my brain works, right, Like I think about like, so

207
00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.360
car doors and like babies crying, well, baby's crying. I

208
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.559
think is pretty obvious and pretty creepy, right, yes, right,

209
00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.000
even if you don't like children, there's a part of

210
00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.919
your brain that is evolutionary wired, evolutionarily wired to respond. Yeah. Yeah,

211
00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:14.519
so car doors that occurred to me, like, what does

212
00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:18.480
that mean in my life? That's an attention grabber, right,

213
00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:21.399
Or it's an announcement. It says high, I'm here, or

214
00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.639
high or goodbye, I'm leaving, you know, so I think

215
00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:26.159
that you know, if we I don't know what to

216
00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:29.080
make of it, right, I don't know, if I don't

217
00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:30.279
know if there's a I don't know if there's a

218
00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:32.879
big monkey out in the woods imitating car doors, or

219
00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.240
if it's some sort of parapsychological thing. I can only

220
00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.120
say that what that sound is a symbol of in

221
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.559
my life is I've arrived or goodbye, I'm leaving. And

222
00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.279
I think that that might be why we see such

223
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.039
an out of place sound like that in the woods sometimes.

224
00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:49.320
And that's that's actually a pretty good snapshot in the

225
00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:50.759
way that I look at these things, which is like,

226
00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:52.720
I don't know what is happening, but let's just take

227
00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:55.840
this on face value. Look at the symbolism, look at

228
00:10:55.919 --> 00:11:01.120
the archetypes, look at the thoughts behind us, the psychological

229
00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:04.039
angle basically, look at it through every angle except the

230
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:07.279
literal angle, right, and then see if we can't extract

231
00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.960
some sort of meaning from that. So, like again the

232
00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.519
fact that that was the sound that I got that

233
00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.080
little weird, little weird Josh got in the woods on

234
00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:17.000
his big foot outing. You know, he didn't get wood

235
00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.720
Knox and he didn't get a hooter a hewl. He

236
00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:23.000
got the like the most John keelish kind of sound

237
00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.519
that felt really that feels really special to me. So

238
00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:28.559
I did get that last year. Yeah.

239
00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:32.120
The the other sound that I've heard, and I'm gonna

240
00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.240
this is going to actually move into a question for

241
00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:36.840
you because we've I've heard you talk about stuff like

242
00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:40.639
this on other shows, is because there's an evolution in

243
00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:43.759
these sounds out in the woods. It's like a mimicry

244
00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:44.360
type of thing.

245
00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:45.440
Right. One of the.

246
00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.039
Newer ones is we bring up car doors slamming and

247
00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.399
how that's hey, I've arrived, right, that kind of thing.

248
00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:58.039
But there's also the beeping of cars, like when when

249
00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.799
you set alarms? Yeah, when when when the fobs? Yeah yeah, yeah,

250
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.519
when you lock your doors and you hear that beet

251
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.799
beep or that beep or you know whatever, but that

252
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.519
is a sound that is also being heard in the

253
00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:14.639
middle of nowhere. So with that, it's like I've heard

254
00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:18.120
you talk about the evolution of like what UFOs or

255
00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.960
UAPs look like. So it's like, you know, throughout the

256
00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:25.200
the the age is like we had the triangles in

257
00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.320
the eighties and these, and now we've got more of

258
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.519
like we got drones now, like it's and drones and

259
00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:32.320
stuff like that.

260
00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.279
Right the end of twenty twenty four I think cemented

261
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.559
the conflation between drones and UFOs and in our minds

262
00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.799
and monster drones like Big One. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

263
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:43.799
And it's the sort of thing like as you're alluding to,

264
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.720
like we had signs and wonders in the sky in

265
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.840
ancient times and then steampunk airships and then the flying saucers.

266
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.519
It's the fire yeah and so like, and so when

267
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:54.559
the when the when the drones. When the tic TAC

268
00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:56.399
video came out, I was like, Okay, well we're gonna

269
00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.240
start conflating drones and people are like, no, I'm not

270
00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:01.000
really seeing a lot of sightings, and I said, you

271
00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.360
just wait, and you know, I wish I'd been more

272
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:05.759
public about that because I can tell everybody I look

273
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:08.879
like yeah, but and so like, you know, with the

274
00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.519
twenty twenty four December drone flap that happened, especially over

275
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.720
the Northeast, you know, I had a lot of friends

276
00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:17.120
being like, but you don't understand, Josh, the're terrestrial drones.

277
00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:18.600
And I'm like, that's not what I'm Again, this is

278
00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.679
not the layer that I'm engaging with, right, I'm not

279
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.879
engaging with that literal sort of layer. I'm saying that

280
00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:26.759
the idea of drone and the idea of UFO has

281
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.879
shaken hands and the collection unconscious. Yeah, and I think

282
00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:32.039
we're just gonna get more of that.

283
00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:36.639
Yeah, I would absolutely agree, And considering just the amount

284
00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.519
of money, let's call it money and effort going in

285
00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:44.480
to expand that space. I mean, it's not just semiconductors,

286
00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:48.600
it's everything that semiconductors are in, right, It's just expanding

287
00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:53.039
like crazy, and I feel like there's some entities that

288
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.840
might latch onto that and go full force.

289
00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.120
Right, Yeah, I mean that's that's I was. I was

290
00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.759
driving back from a gig intend to see back in

291
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.120
February with one of my friends and one of my

292
00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:06.039
band members, and we were talking about stuff, and I

293
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:09.840
think chiropractic came up, you know, the chiropractic discipline, and

294
00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:12.720
I told him, I said, Reggie, I said, there's everything

295
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.240
has an occult angle, like everything. I think everything has

296
00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.399
an occult side. Like I think that you could probably

297
00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.080
find an occult side to everything. And it only gets

298
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.720
weirder when you start dealing with like technologies of all sorts.

299
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.320
You know, over the years, there's always like some somebody

300
00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:29.399
channeled something or somebody had something revealed to dream or

301
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.519
like there's always always this occult side. So yeah, I

302
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:34.679
mean it makes it's not very surprising to me that

303
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:41.480
you see that sort of sphere of of development sort

304
00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.320
of really plugged into this at this point in the timeline.

305
00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:47.759
It's almost like a corruption is a very hyperbolic word,

306
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.519
but it's a you know, I guess you could say

307
00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:53.279
it's a corruption of it. It's just the flip side

308
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.600
of what if something's good, There's gonna always be a

309
00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:00.320
flip side, right, That's the yin and yang, And well, yeah,

310
00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:01.039
I'm gonna.

311
00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.320
Every I don't want to be a luddite, but I

312
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:05.639
definitely am a late definitely I am a late adopter,

313
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.559
like I got my first smartphone in twenty twenty two.

314
00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:12.200
Like I'm a late adopter for everything, because since twenty

315
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.120
twenty two, I have become a smartphone zombie. And that's

316
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.960
what I was trying to avoid. But you look, you

317
00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.840
look at the sort of garden path that we're being

318
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.440
led down with a lot of this stuff, you know,

319
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.840
I mean artificial intelligence to the large language models. They

320
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:27.240
have a lot of utility and a lot of important utility,

321
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:28.600
and I think they're going to be great for like

322
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.720
medical diagnostics. And you know, sometimes it's even nice to

323
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.840
like write your own summary of something and plug in

324
00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:36.559
the original text and be like, is this an accurate summary?

325
00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:38.519
Did I leave out that should be? You know, things

326
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.279
like that that are nice to have a voice to

327
00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.279
bounce things off of. But like people who are just

328
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.600
like plugging stuff in and having it spit back out

329
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.279
and publishing it as their own work and stuff, people

330
00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.200
not thinking for themselves, people leaning on these things as

331
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.240
research tools. These are problems. And so yeah, that is

332
00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.639
that dark That is that darkened version of what you're

333
00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.000
alluding to. I mean, it's everybody, it really is is.

334
00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:01.639
I think it's that sort of civilizing trickster motif, that

335
00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:05.399
sort of Promethean motif of like, you know, we always

336
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:10.519
get technology from this imaginal realm of spirit, right, But

337
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:14.559
you know, fire is obviously one of the greatest gifts

338
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.399
or inventions, depending on which you know you ascribe to.

339
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.200
There you go. Fire, it's one of the greatest. It's

340
00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.879
one of the greatest things that we have as a species.

341
00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.440
But it also can be used for immense destruction, you know.

342
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.159
So that's a that's a classic case example of what

343
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.039
we're dealing with here. And I think that an awareness

344
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:38.639
of that myth, because myths are true and they repeat

345
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:39.919
over and over again and they tell you about the

346
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.679
human condition. And awareness of that myth as we go

347
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.399
into this brave new world of large language models and

348
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:50.679
big robotic promises, I think is going to be important.

349
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.399
And of course it just so happens to coincide with

350
00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.679
this disclosure season, you know.

351
00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.399
Yeah, right, yeah, exactly.

352
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.960
Yeah, I mean, it's yeah, and that's that's why you know,

353
00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:03.039
I you know, I think that.

354
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.880
So my latest book is about fiction's becoming fact, and

355
00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:08.720
I don't necessarily want to dwell on it too much,

356
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:10.359
but it definitely feels like it's very much of this

357
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.039
time period, which is the trickster time period. I'll argue, like,

358
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.519
it's not like, oh, there have been great developments in

359
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.839
UFO disclosure. It's that this is the time, this is

360
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.799
the point of the timeline where nobody believes authority structures,

361
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.480
where lies mass great as truth and truths mass great

362
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.680
as lies. This is the post truth era. This of course,

363
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.759
this is the time when the trickster comes out and

364
00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.240
when the UFOs come out. So it feels definitely much,

365
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.480
definitely a piece of that, you know. And of course

366
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.240
it's the time when AI is rewriting our expectations and

367
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.519
rewriting history and all this stuff. So I just the

368
00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.839
flavor is consistent from the UFO space, through the cultural space,

369
00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:46.279
through the technological space.

370
00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:52.599
Yeah, for sure. I mean unfortunately, as a species, even right,

371
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.640
we're always ripe for a rewrite, right, Like it's just

372
00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.079
a setup. It seems like it's always a setup, and

373
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.440
be doesn't mean it always happens, but there's always that

374
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:05.480
that chance.

375
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:05.880
Right.

376
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:07.920
One of the things that I saw is like when

377
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:10.599
my kids were in school, Well, so I have a

378
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.440
pretty I have a fifteen year gap between my oldest

379
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:19.519
and my youngest, and so you know, I saw my

380
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.319
thirty year old she she's, you know, learning very much

381
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.039
like I did in school. But then you have that

382
00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:31.240
whole progression where like my youngest isn't even taught curse

383
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:33.839
how to write cursive, right, and we.

384
00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.519
Could go down that rabbit hole about it, you know, cursive,

385
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.799
but I'm forty and by the time I got to

386
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:42.359
that point, they'd stop doing it too. My mom actually

387
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.480
ended up throwing a book of cursive in front of me,

388
00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.599
and so I know cursive through her efforts, but not

389
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:47.400
through school. Yeah.

390
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.240
So like it's one of those things. And I just

391
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:51.680
used that as an example. I'm not, you know, going

392
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.079
down that rabbit hole, but it's it's, you know, because

393
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:57.279
of the word cursive. You could make a whole episode

394
00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:57.880
just off of that.

395
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.359
But I'm not, I'm unaware of any of that. Okay,

396
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:02.960
I'll take your word for it, all right, Okay, okay.

397
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:08.119
Either way, you can't read our founding documents, right or

398
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.920
should I say they're they're more difficult to use. I'm

399
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.279
just you know, this is just the United States in general.

400
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:19.240
But yeah, so it's it's ripe for rewriting. I mean,

401
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.880
I think most folks who would say religious books across

402
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:27.519
the centuries have been rewritten or reinterpreted or whatever as

403
00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:29.799
well to an extent.

404
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.279
Again, well, that's I mean, that's that's sort of the

405
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.759
thing that I'm always struck with in this era is

406
00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:37.960
that I go back and forth between things are getting

407
00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:40.240
worse and it was always this bad, and we're just

408
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.759
more aware, right because of the Internet, you know. Yeah,

409
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:48.559
I go back and forth between those two extremes.

410
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.119
Right, So I do want to talk about just because

411
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.160
it's fascinating to me. And this goes way back in

412
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.079
your work to your first book, The a Trojan Feast

413
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:57.319
And what's the rest of the.

414
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:01.400
Type food and drink offerings of fair these aliens and sasquatch.

415
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.119
Hopefully I can remember. That's amazing, Come on, hopefully I

416
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.680
can remember the rest of the book as well as

417
00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:06.799
I remember the subtitle.

418
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.319
So, and I actually wrote it down, but of course

419
00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.640
I didn't have it popped up. So explores the role

420
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:19.880
of food and paranormal encounters leaking linking folklore UFO contact.

421
00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:23.880
These stories encryptid lore through the act of sharing meals

422
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:25.680
with non human entities.

423
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:27.839
To me, because I am.

424
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.119
A bigfoot guy, and we have this gifting rock thing

425
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.359
sometimes that people do and and whatnot, but.

426
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.440
That goes deeper, right, because it goes so much deeper,

427
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.880
you know, and folklore especially. Yeah, And I would have like,

428
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.240
it's kind of in a world where there's an extra

429
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:48.720
day in the week, I will revise a Trojan Feast

430
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:50.880
and update it with some of my perspectives that I've

431
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:54.200
I've learned or I've integrated since then, because you know,

432
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.599
my thing was like, oh, it's all reminiscent of fairy folklore,

433
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.039
but really it's all reminiscent of you know, occultism and

434
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.119
magical practice and religious practice and all those things. And

435
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:03.839
I think that's sort of a big blind spot for

436
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.119
me ten years ago. But here we are. But yeah,

437
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:08.759
I mean this in the story of the story of

438
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.880
the Beginnings of a Trojan Feast is because it was

439
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.720
my first book, the story of my origin story and

440
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:19.319
my entry into this domain. Dear. This must have been

441
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:24.759
twenty fourteen ish, late twenty thirteen. Yeah, twenty fourteen ish.

442
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.400
I had gotten a gift card from Amazon for Amazon

443
00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.440
from one of my sisters in law, and I was like,

444
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.799
I'm going to indulge and get myself a big Foot book,

445
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:39.039
and I got Jay robert Ally's Raincoast Sasquatch, which is

446
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:41.319
just a great book. My impression of that book, if

447
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.279
I remember correctly, is that he's more of a flesh

448
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.519
and blood sort of investigator, but he gives space and

449
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.279
respect to a lot of the indigenous beliefs, and I

450
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.920
really admire anyone who does that. So I read this book,

451
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:53.759
and I'm reading it and I'm going along through it,

452
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.960
and I get stuck on this part where he talks

453
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.039
about I think it's the tiling gets If it's not,

454
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.119
it's the cockwa you walk. So my apologies, but one

455
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:07.279
of the tribes in Alaska says that they they're Bigfoot analog.

456
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:10.279
The book was if it gives you what appears to

457
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:12.960
be dried salmon, not only is it not dried salmon,

458
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.480
it's you know, tree bark that's made to look like

459
00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.920
dried salmon. But if you consume that, you'll be stuck

460
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.039
with the book qust forever. And I'm like, ah, that

461
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.599
sounds really really familiar, and then it sounds it's the

462
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.000
exact same thing that you hear and Western European fairy

463
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:31.720
folk wre right. The idea that you know, if you

464
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.000
go to the goat among the fairies and they will

465
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.359
give you food or drink that is almost always you know,

466
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.680
leaves and twigs and worms and rocks that's cloaked in

467
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.920
glamour to appear appealing like food and drink. It's not

468
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:47.440
really food and drink, but if you eat it, you're

469
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.640
stuck with the fairies forever. It's like the the exact

470
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.720
same thing. And I was like, that's really weird, because

471
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:59.519
you know, Ireland is pretty far from coastal Alaska. And again,

472
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.559
one of the things that I would sort of revise

473
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:05.160
and expand on if I had a chance, would be

474
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.720
to sort of take a look at how pervasive this is,

475
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:10.519
because it's it's a motif that you see and a

476
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:13.160
lot of dealing with the realms of the dead. You'll

477
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.319
see that in South America. You see it just everywhere.

478
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:20.039
The wisdom that I don't believe has changed. I believe

479
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.559
it's still sort of prevailing wisdom amongst Folklorest is that

480
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:28.079
this food taboo is derivative of the Persephone myth, who

481
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.119
you know, Persephone went to the underworld in Greek legend

482
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.559
and consumed a pomegranate seed, and she was stuck with

483
00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.000
hades forever and only just to come out every so often.

484
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:40.480
But like, how did the persephone myth make its way

485
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.279
to Alaska? Can we answer that? You know, how does it,

486
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:45.359
as I found in my later work make it? How

487
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:46.759
does it, as I found in my later work, make

488
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.359
its way into the Amazon basin? And I think that

489
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.240
with something that is that specific, because let's face it,

490
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:55.400
that's really specific. With something that's that specific, I think

491
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.440
you wind up with one of three conclusions. And I

492
00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:59.559
don't see another way around this. I bring this up

493
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:01.400
from time to time and ask people to sort of

494
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:04.279
tell me if there's something I'm missing three things. Three

495
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:08.880
things are number one, a truly international civilization that cross

496
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:13.240
pollinated culture to degrees that nobody acknowledges, right, Like the

497
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:15.599
idea that there were Greeks and current Brazil Like that

498
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.640
doesn't happen, right, That's option number one. Option number two

499
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:24.799
is that the collective unconscious is much more tangible and

500
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:30.079
demonstrably real and specific then we acknowledge as a culture.

501
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:34.000
Or three, these people encountered something and they all had

502
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.079
the same experience with it, and this is objectively how

503
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:38.279
it works when dealing with these things, and I think

504
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:40.799
those are your only three options. And so that's kind

505
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.480
of confronting once you realize that, because like, that's that's

506
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.920
not something that I can I can explain away very easily.

507
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.240
So that was the journey that set me on writing

508
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.440
about a Trojan feast. And ten years later, I'm still

509
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.480
fool enough, foolish enough to be on the same path.

510
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:56.720
But whatever.

511
00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:59.920
Yeah, And the thing is is you bring up those

512
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.240
three different options, I guess you could say, but like

513
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:06.039
I said earlier, they all kind of rhyme. There is

514
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:09.440
leed over with those, and I think that's a very

515
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:12.559
good point. I think people just don't We're a little

516
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.640
blinded to stuff like that, right, Yeah. I mean in

517
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:17.519
the modern day at.

518
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.960
Least, it's the thing where it's like I can believe

519
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:24.960
that the persephone myth somehow traveled throughout the Eurasian land

520
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.599
mass and Africa, but like you're you're seeing this in Polynesia,

521
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.279
you're seeing this in island Southeast Asia, you're seeing in Australia,

522
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.960
you're seeing it again in the Americas. I just don't

523
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:35.319
know what to make of it. And there's some things

524
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:37.559
that are just like that that pop up time and again,

525
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:39.839
and like it's it's less like somebody might point to,

526
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:42.880
like the abundance of pyramids as a structure built all

527
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.319
around the world is sort of a similar idea, a

528
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.839
similar idea. Yeah, but at the same time, like it's

529
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.480
not that far of a stretch to say, the sky

530
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:53.519
is where mysteries lie, and how do you get to

531
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:55.720
the sky? You get closer to the sky, like I can.

532
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.400
I'm not saying I should or you should, but I

533
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:01.880
can find a pretty mundane explanation for why we build

534
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:05.839
mounds and pyramids and artificial mountains. That food thing is

535
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:10.400
real specific. It's just so specific, you know. So that

536
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.240
was sort of what sort of set me on the

537
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.960
path that I've remained on, which is to find something

538
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:19.839
small and unexplored and to sort of dive into that. Now, granted,

539
00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.519
I've wandered from that mandate with the last couple of

540
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:24.920
books that I've gotten bigger and bigger in scope. I

541
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:28.279
fully plan on returning to that after this next thing

542
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:32.839
that I'm working on. But yeah, so often in if

543
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.799
you've voraciously consumed for tea in literature, you will find

544
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:44.119
things that are throwaway sentences or paragraphs where the author's like, wow,

545
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.720
this seems pretty interesting. I wonder what's up with that anyway,

546
00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.960
and moving on, and that's the moment where I go, way, no,

547
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.000
let's unpack this. You know, what can we learn from

548
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.640
these small correspondences about these mysteries as a whole, because,

549
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:02.599
like tackling them head on for you know what, seventy

550
00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:06.920
or eighty years in the case of UFOs, you know,

551
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.480
to varying degrees. With these other mysteries, tackling these questions

552
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:13.839
head on has a yielded the sort of results that

553
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:16.680
I think a lot of people hope for, not that

554
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:18.920
I think you can obtain those results ever, Like I

555
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:21.880
think that it's not about finding answers. It's about getting

556
00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.480
a better understanding, you know, and a better personal understanding.

557
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:26.119
I think that's really the end goal that people should

558
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.359
be focusing on. But at the same time, let's switch

559
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:30.759
up the methodology a little bit. Let's let's focus on

560
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.359
small things that seem inconsequential and trace them across these

561
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.880
different expressions of the paranormal and see what we can learn,

562
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.799
you know, and maybe it's nothing, but maybe it's.

563
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:45.599
Something absolutely just the lens we look through, right, Yeah, too,

564
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.799
often people get stuck, and I think the way out

565
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.920
of that is by looking at things from a different

566
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:53.680
angle or through a different lens.

567
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:56.319
Right, Yeah, I was thinking about that in the car yesterday.

568
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:59.319
It's just like, we in these.

569
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.759
Fields prod ourselves for being so much more open minded

570
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:06.160
than the regular person on the street, but we have

571
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.480
our own sacred cows. You know a lot of people

572
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:10.960
who are like you know, you know a lot of

573
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.240
people who are who are convinced that UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors,

574
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:18.400
or that sasquatch is a relic hominid, or that quite frankly,

575
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:21.200
ghosts are dead people. These are things that we cling

576
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.000
to really closely in these in these areas, and there

577
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.440
we tend to not react well when people step outside

578
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.720
those possibilities. And that's sort of a bit of a

579
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.079
contradiction that I think a lot of these communities that

580
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:35.720
espouse open mindedness sort of fall into that.

581
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:40.839
Everyone gets confirmation bias right right, right, and siloed. And

582
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.799
unfortunately that's one thing. I mean, I really work hard

583
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:47.119
not to get siloed. That's that's my big that's my

584
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:47.680
big thing.

585
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.720
Yeah, I'm all about just mixing it up, and you know,

586
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:54.160
and swishing these things around. And that's that's sort of

587
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:56.759
what my work process is like too. You know. Somebody

588
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.920
asked me relatively recently about like, you know, how do

589
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:02.400
you come up with an idea for book? And I'm like, well, like,

590
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.240
what you do is you read all the UFO books.

591
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:07.160
Let's say you want to write book about UFOs, right,

592
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.920
so I'm just using UFOs as a stand in for

593
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.279
all this stuff. You read every UFO book that you can,

594
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:14.720
including the stuff that you don't agree with, and you

595
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:17.880
listen to every podcast and you get a real sense

596
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:20.359
for the history of the phenomenon, and you talk to

597
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.319
people who have experienced this, and you do all these things,

598
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.640
and you go through the archives and you do some fieldwork,

599
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:29.480
and then you forget about it. You just stop. You

600
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:31.920
put all that aside, and you say, wow, that was

601
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:35.319
a fun journey. And then at some point you'll be

602
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:39.799
watching or listening to something for your own interests and

603
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:41.720
something that will ticle you in the back of your

604
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:43.480
mind and go like, hey, this has something to do

605
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:46.279
with the UFO thing, like this this is somehow related.

606
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:48.599
And that's the journey that I've always found, is that

607
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:50.880
there's something that you'll hear and you'll be like, you know,

608
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.759
Indo European horse sacrifice. It does have something to do

609
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:56.079
with the UFO phenomena, you know, those sort of things,

610
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.240
and then trying to explain that to people is sort

611
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.160
of where I think the real magic happens. So I

612
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.880
think that, and again, like I think that speaks to

613
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:07.960
there's that Marshall mcclu in quote, The medium is the message,

614
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:11.279
Like I think that. Yes, sometimes I think that might

615
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:14.440
be the reason for a lot of these things is

616
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:16.440
to put us, to set us on that personal journey

617
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.119
of discovery.

618
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.559
Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like I get a cut up

619
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:24.519
in a new one every day.

620
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.359
Yeah, well, yeah, have you gotten to that point yet

621
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.359
where you like you sort of like find yourself drawing

622
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.720
lines and things that you like, I can't, I can't

623
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.559
learn about this, Like it's going to take up too

624
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:35.000
much away.

625
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.680
Yeah, it's too much time, Like it's I can't go

626
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.039
down that rabbit hole. Like I had so I do

627
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.039
another podcast as well, and I had to just line

628
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:45.480
out a whole episode that I had created, and I'm like,

629
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.519
because things are changing so quickly too that it's just

630
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:52.720
like this is absolete, and yeah, recorded it like five

631
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:55.480
days ago, you know, that kind of thing. So it's

632
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:58.400
it's not just us, it's the world. It feels like

633
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.519
it's accelerating, you know, in so many aspects, not some

634
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.160
it feels like it's not. But well, you know that

635
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.440
was that's that's Terrence McKenna territory. Yeah, that's absolutely.

636
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.160
You know, people sort of give him flak for his

637
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:16.799
timewave zero idea. Not great great writer, but you know

638
00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:18.640
he said, you know it was he was mapping the

639
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.759
eaching onto twenty twelve and you know, twenty twelve in

640
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:24.640
some people's eyes as a dud, I know, and other

641
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:26.480
people who were like, no, twenty twelves when stuff really

642
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:28.839
started getting weird. But one of the things that he

643
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:33.559
said was, you know, we're spiraling into an asymptotic curve

644
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.079
of novelty, you know, and the idea that things would

645
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.160
get more and more hectic and more and more novel

646
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:40.960
and more and more unique and like that certainly feels

647
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.920
like that. Like the pace and the amount of novelty

648
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:45.079
is pretty staggering.

649
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.920
Absolutely, I mean, just the amount of stuff coming at

650
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:54.079
us in this space is insane, Like it just doesn't stop.

651
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:56.960
And uh, you know, which is good. It's good for

652
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.400
content creation. But what is your favorite book you've read?

653
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:02.839
I know that's not a fair question.

654
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.559
No, you know, I I if I can, if I

655
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:11.160
can bring it down to like three or four, I'll

656
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:15.960
be happy. Yeah, Patrick Harper's Demonic Reality. You know, it's

657
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.839
just I read a review somebody who left me a

658
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.759
bad review on one of my books, and like, I

659
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.359
think that the thing about Demonic Reality is that it

660
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:31.079
it's kind of a good litmus test for seeing which

661
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.519
people involved in this have poetry in their soul and

662
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.960
which ones don't. And this person who left this review

663
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:38.920
was like being a real literalist about some stuff. And

664
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:40.920
I'm like, okay, well you don't get it. And so

665
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.359
like Patrick Harper is just such a wonderful writer and

666
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.160
such a such an insightful person, like one of the

667
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.440
to give an idea of the sort of flavor of

668
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.799
the insights that he has, he references the Exodus of

669
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.799
the Fairies, which is something that's been you've seen since

670
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:56.759
like Chaucer, the idea that the fairies are leaving this world.

671
00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:58.720
You see it in Tolkien too, right, Like the el's

672
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:01.279
are leaving for the undying, Like this is the motif

673
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:03.680
that you see where people actually would report like parades

674
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:06.920
of fairies, like with their belongings leaving different areas, but

675
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.079
they never you know, they've been doing this since Chaucer, Right,

676
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:12.319
So one of the things that Harper notes is that

677
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.759
you know, the fairies are going going, but never gone.

678
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:19.519
And according to the you know, disclosure community and the euthologists,

679
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.640
the aliens are always coming, coming, but never here. And

680
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.880
like that's just such a especially when you consider the

681
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.720
links between fairy folklore and the UFO phenomen and like,

682
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.720
that's such an elegant way of looking at that. And

683
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:35.119
that's sort of part of what has inspired a subset

684
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:36.960
of my interests, which is sort of the idea like

685
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.240
the inversion of these tropes can sometimes mean that the

686
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:43.680
tropes are being represented in this capacity. So Patrick Harber's

687
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.920
Demonic Reality, certainly Jacques Filay's Passport to Magonia is like

688
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:49.640
the foundation upon which I have. That was the rock

689
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.599
upon which I built my church, right, that was sort

690
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.960
of that you can't not mention that, and I have

691
00:33:56.079 --> 00:34:00.079
to say, and it's not for everybody, but if you

692
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:02.839
can make your way through it. The one book that

693
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:06.240
I lean on, time and time again and always always

694
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.159
proves itself correct. Is George P. Hansen's The Trickster in

695
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:13.800
the paranormal parts of it read like VCR instructions, you know, Yeah,

696
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:18.920
But having said that, he so handily demonstrates not only

697
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.159
what the trickster archetype is, but it's different manifestations, and

698
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:26.679
it's the kind of book and there exists exceedingly few

699
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:28.679
like this in this space, but it's the kind of

700
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:32.519
book upon which you can make predictions and they tend

701
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.480
to play out accurately, you know. He emphasizes how, you know,

702
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:42.000
the trickster is boundary breaking, anti structural, transgressive, all these

703
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:45.519
sort of different things applies. He applies this archetype not

704
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:49.480
only to the paranormal phenomena at large, but also to

705
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:55.280
you know, paranormal investigation groups and or you know, conferences

706
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.599
and events. Again, the interplay between people, and it always

707
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.639
holds like you can even sort of see not only

708
00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:06.039
how paranormal news will unfold, but you can also see

709
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.840
how the the sort of interpersonal dynamics of paranormal groups

710
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:12.840
will sort of fall apart. Based on Hanson's work, It's

711
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:16.119
it's it's great. That's having said that, like reading it

712
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.880
a paragraph at a time is probably the best way

713
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:21.440
to tackle it. So like that's sort of my part

714
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.280
of my trifecta. And I'm not I mean, there are

715
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.440
a lot of close I guess in this case close

716
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.440
forths that I would add to that list. You know,

717
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:35.039
the work of the work of Jenny Randall's, the work

718
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:41.119
of Jeff Cripel, uh, the work of Jerry Clark. And

719
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:43.719
even though I disagree with a lot of his assessments

720
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:47.280
Lauren Coleman, you know, these are all people who sort

721
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.320
of form the backbone of of what I the way

722
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:51.719
I think these days.

723
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:54.480
Breaking up, which is fine. I think it's gonna work

724
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:55.199
its way through.

725
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.840
Sorry, I don't know what happened, you know, I don't know.

726
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:04.480
That's we resumed. We're good, and you got yourself a drink.

727
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:07.280
So that's good. Yeah, yeah, I did. Like the coffee

728
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:08.920
is done, said now it's time to move on to

729
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:13.039
the soda. But yeah, so that's that's sort of like

730
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.960
my go to. But you know, I'm always finding new

731
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.079
scholars that I really resonate and appreciate. You know, Martin

732
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:25.840
Kottmeyer as somebody with whom I felt a rapport online,

733
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:29.519
and he's a great researcher and thinker in terms of

734
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.599
the way that he looks back at earlier antecedents to

735
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:33.519
these phenomena, which is actually kind of ties into what

736
00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:37.000
we were talking about earlier. He has pointed out, like

737
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.639
Bertrand may use that like the UFO phenomenon has this

738
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.679
reciprocity with culture, and it's like picking up cultural expectations

739
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:45.760
and things that appear in fiction end up end up

740
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:48.599
in real life UFO counts and stuff. Martin sort of

741
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:53.840
determined pretty convincingly that the first example of a UFO

742
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:58.840
that causes electronics or engine interference actually appeared in pulp magazines,

743
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:02.400
which is an important servation. I would say, though this

744
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.280
ties directly back to our conversation about technology and about

745
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.880
how the phenomenon reacts. That the idea of a UFO

746
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.159
shutting down your car engine or radio or headlights or

747
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:18.719
whatever is substantively the same thing as a ghost blowing

748
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:23.199
out a candle, right, because this is something non human

749
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.440
extinguishing our technology, right, Like that's what that's what the

750
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.599
broadest strokes of the motifars. But again, like if you

751
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:31.440
go back far enough, are you going to find that

752
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.000
in fiction? You know? And I think you're just going

753
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:37.719
to play this sort of like the sort of game

754
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.440
of like leap frog fiction reality fiction reality.

755
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:43.239
And you see that again we talk about things rhyming.

756
00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:48.320
It happens with ghosts with very normal shutting things out,

757
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:54.239
lights flickering, all that stuff. Bigfoot cameras just not working.

758
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.280
Yeah, yeah, And I think that, like, I think that

759
00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:59.239
what happens is like if you try to trace like

760
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:03.679
where it appeared first in first person accounts or in art, like,

761
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.960
you're probably gonna wind up at petroglyphs, right, You're probably

762
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.320
gonna wind up at like cave art. And that's why.

763
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:10.719
That's that's why I like, I think it's I think

764
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:13.679
it's important to say, hey, yeah, these you know, these

765
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:18.400
figures look like gray aliens. But like that's not that's

766
00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:20.480
not the message that should be taken from that. It's

767
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:22.679
just the idea that these forms and motifs have been

768
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:27.159
around a long time. And I suspect it's part of

769
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.800
how we interact with this other intelligence is sort of

770
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:31.679
grafting those image of images onto it.

771
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:35.559
Yeah, So I mean, like with that, and and I

772
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:39.440
don't think this is just modern society, but more like

773
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:47.159
humans in general. Why why are they so Why are

774
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:54.679
we so uncomfortable with ambiguity, especially when it comes to

775
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:55.639
the supernatural.

776
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.119
Yeah, my mentor Greg Bishop calls it the certainty fetish,

777
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.199
like you've got to you've got to land on something

778
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.360
one way or the other. Yeah, I don't know. I

779
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.000
think a lot of that is the fact that I

780
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.239
see this in the cryptology community so much good and

781
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:15.679
call it out. I feel like a lot of very intelligent,

782
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:23.039
thoughtful people have been noticing some genuine anomalies in the

783
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:26.639
realm of say Bigfoot, and have for a long time

784
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:33.239
been bringing those observations to the orthodox scientific community and

785
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.599
been laughed at. And I think that there is this

786
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:37.199
desire to be proven right at the end of the

787
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.559
day and to be able to say I told you

788
00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:46.079
so right. I think that's part of it. But again,

789
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:50.079
I just I have to wonder if that's not the

790
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.559
worst message that we could be taken from this, because

791
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.559
it does come back to this sort of personal transformation,

792
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:57.079
that sort of re enchantment of the world that I

793
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.039
was talking about earlier, with the way that it makes

794
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.119
you view things around you in a new light. And

795
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.119
that's why I think that some of my stuff doesn't

796
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:09.119
necessarily resonate with people because a lot of maybe even

797
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.320
most of paranormal media is hung up on this question

798
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.440
of is it real or not? Like that's the that's

799
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:16.840
the only question they want to answer. I think it's

800
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:19.320
so much more interesting to say, Okay, let's proceed under

801
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.960
the assumption that it is. What can we learn about

802
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.679
these repetitions and these motifs and these other things that

803
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:28.639
we see time and time and time again, Like is

804
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:30.800
there something some sort of insight that can be pulled

805
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:33.519
out from that. I think that's such a more rewarding

806
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:37.119
place to go because because you know, my favorite skeptics

807
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.159
do this, right, my favorite skeptics and I do have

808
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:43.039
I do know if you my favorite skeptics are the

809
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:46.079
ones who say, you know, Josh, I don't think that

810
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:48.079
this is real in the same way that you do.

811
00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:51.840
But it still needs to be investigated, It still needs

812
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:54.440
to be reported, it still needs to be interrogated, because

813
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:56.400
at the at the very least, it will tell us

814
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:59.159
something about ourselves. I'm like, yep, can't argue with that?

815
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:00.360
Can I argue with that?

816
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:01.679
No?

817
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:08.440
True, it's so musician and you play the tuba right, Yeah.

818
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:11.880
Yeah, I'm an embarrassment everywhere I go. I played the tube.

819
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:15.800
Was like the fact that you can play a instrument

820
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.079
is amazing. So being a musician, what connections do you

821
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:28.000
see between like sound frequency and like maybe manifestation of

822
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:28.760
the paranormal?

823
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:32.280
Like is that a thing? Yeah, I mean I think

824
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.000
that there's something to it. I think there's something to

825
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.039
the whole idea of vibrations as at least a metaphor,

826
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:40.000
you know, the idea of waves and vibrational frequencies. If

827
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:44.039
you'll allow me to indulge myself with some research that

828
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:47.599
I sort of put together from one of my books.

829
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:52.920
If I can remember even where it is, because it's specific,

830
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:55.119
I need to make sure I grab this. So, there's

831
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:58.719
been this long standing conflation that sleep paralysis and alien

832
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.960
abduction are the same thing. Well, number one, they don't

833
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:03.079
really seem like the same thing in terms of the

834
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:06.760
felt experience, right, sleep paralysis pushes you down, and you know,

835
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:09.079
alien abductions are all about being lifted up. Right. But

836
00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:11.840
there's some interesting research that I found from this person

837
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:16.480
named Michael N. Marsh, where researchers discover that the application

838
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:20.440
of low amplitude electrical stimuli applied to the vestibular cortex

839
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:25.000
gave people sensations of sinking or falling, while the opposite

840
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:29.760
higher currents gave people feelings of out of body experiences basically.

841
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:33.199
And what I think is interesting about that is, if

842
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:37.199
you know, you sort of apply a metaphorical lens to

843
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:43.800
this low amplitude sleep paralysis, high amplitude out of body experiences,

844
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:46.519
it seems to map on to what we see with

845
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:49.519
people who have these experiences, right, because sleep paralysis, sleep

846
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.480
paralysis experiences always say that these are negative things around them,

847
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:56.000
things that the new agers would say were low frequency

848
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:59.000
you know entities, and people who have out of body

849
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:03.159
experiences are the ones having you know, high frequency experiences.

850
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:05.280
These sort of like positive so it's interesting that the

851
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:09.079
amplitude would apply to that. Where I tend to see

852
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:15.920
the overlap between music and the paranormal in general is

853
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.679
just in the altered states of consciousness or space, and

854
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.119
it's hard to describe unless you've had it happen to you.

855
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.280
But like there's some things where so like you know,

856
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:25.719
most of what I do is New Orleans music, So

857
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:30.400
like I'm there's always almost always an improvisatory component, you know,

858
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:34.239
if I'm if I'm walking basslines or crafting baselines, or

859
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:36.679
on the rare occasion that someone's foolish foolish enough to

860
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:38.559
let me take a solo. There always is sort of

861
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:41.239
an on the spot sort of making up component, which

862
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.639
I have found to be infinitely more rewarding than classical music.

863
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:46.840
But that's another story. But like, there are moments. It

864
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:48.880
doesn't happen all the time, but there are moments when

865
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.639
it really does feel like you plug into something and

866
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:56.360
you get into that flow state, which probably is like

867
00:43:56.599 --> 00:43:59.360
channeling light, you know, where it's like automatic writing or

868
00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:00.880
something like that, where you sort of let this other

869
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:02.760
thing take control, and you know, you listen back to

870
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:04.400
yourself and you're like, oh, that was that was me?

871
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.960
That trueck doesn't sound like me. So there's that, and

872
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:11.840
then there's you know, what's interesting for me about what

873
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.800
I do and the bands that I've led is that

874
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.360
like I can't I don't know if you're familiar with

875
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:19.280
like New Orleans brass band music, but like there's not

876
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.519
a lot of opportunities for the tuba player to say

877
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:25.079
anything because they're just like, I play these gigs and

878
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:27.840
it's pretty much the horns on my face literally NonStop

879
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.400
for the entire show. You know, there are gaps between tunes,

880
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:33.639
but like if we're playing music, I am playing So

881
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:36.360
that makes leading a band kind of tricky. But there

882
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:38.440
have been times in the past where I have I've

883
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.800
led a band and if I have the right group

884
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:43.800
of people around me I'm familiar with and then I've

885
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.360
played with long enough, there does seem to be a

886
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:52.559
sort of fragile neural network, telepathic neural network that comes

887
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:56.239
up around us. Part of this can be explained by

888
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.239
my familiarity playing with these other people, right, But I

889
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.760
think part of it too is that like there is

890
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:06.000
some sort of mildly telepathic thing going on, because I

891
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:08.320
have been in those situations where I have switched to

892
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:11.280
something just to throw a wrench into, you know, a

893
00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:15.039
boring gig. I've switched into something a different style or

894
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:19.000
a different feel, and it has been so anticipated by

895
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:20.360
the rest of the group that it sounds like it

896
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.760
was rehearsed. I think that's a little bit more magical

897
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.280
than a lot of us apprehend.

898
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:29.239
Yeah, absolutely, it's that. Yeah, it's the it's the vibe,

899
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:31.760
you know, it's the right and and that's what we're

900
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:32.559
talking about, right.

901
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.079
I did all that I did, all that preamble about

902
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.960
like not being able to having the horn on my

903
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.119
face to be like, I'm not I'm not yelling to people,

904
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.760
I'm not offering commands to people. Like it's just kind

905
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:43.559
of like a look and then I switch and then

906
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.000
you know, even without any words, it's it's been been

907
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:48.679
taken up by everybody else.

908
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.519
Absolutely, Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, if you're to

909
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:56.519
sum up, because you've got a lot of resear like

910
00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:00.440
porn poring, like what is your research, like you're current

911
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:04.400
what would you call it? Working model of reality? Because

912
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:07.239
of all of this research and all the inputs that

913
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:10.119
you've taken shoved into your.

914
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:12.320
Head, right being a complete weirdo.

915
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.199
Like I have been, I guess that's the best way

916
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:18.519
to put it, Like you're working model of reality.

917
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:20.320
No, that's that's a great that's a great way to

918
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.960
put it. Well. Number one, I hate materialism and I

919
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:27.280
hate physicalism, like I just think that those I think that,

920
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.119
don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. Religion. Religion

921
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:35.199
has been responsible for plenty of atrocities, right, but the

922
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:39.880
day to day in humanity and selfishness that I see,

923
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.639
I think a lot of that can be laid AT's feet,

924
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:47.199
in materialism's feet thankfully. You know, the new atheism of

925
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.519
the nineties is kind of dead on arrival at this point,

926
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:54.239
which I think is a really good thing. But something

927
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:58.519
besides physicalism and materialism I think is important, or I

928
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.639
think is probably what's going on. I'm a fan of idealism.

929
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:06.880
I'm a fan of panpsychism. Friend Barbara Fisher has described

930
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:13.480
me as a Christian mystic animist sort of thing. Is

931
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:16.360
that again, Barbara Fisher, she used to run the Six

932
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:18.880
Degrees of John Keel podcast and she's edited my last

933
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.440
couple of books, and I'm working on a project with

934
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:24.000
her right now. But you know, I've always been sympathetic

935
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.719
to the idea that everything is insuld to a certain degree,

936
00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:29.840
but as far as what the phenomenon is, right, unless

937
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.519
we're talking about idealism, I hate simulation theory, right, I

938
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:36.159
just can't. Yeah, right, there's there's no opportunity for transcendence.

939
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:39.079
I think it's just another the latest example in a

940
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:41.519
long string of examples where we're like, oh, maybe the

941
00:47:41.559 --> 00:47:44.719
paranormal functions like a radio, or oh maybe the paranormal

942
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:46.920
functions like a television. Now it's like, oh, maybe it

943
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:49.760
functions like like a video game, you know, it's it's

944
00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.320
I think that as a metaphor it's useful, but like

945
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.960
as a literal interpretation. No, but again, I'm dancing around

946
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:58.679
this what I think that is going on with the phenomenon.

947
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:00.599
I have been led to a conclin illusion that I

948
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:03.400
have not I never really wanted to be the case.

949
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:06.079
My inner twelve year old still wants there to be

950
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:09.599
an alien that lands on the White House lawn. You know.

951
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:11.360
I want to go into the backyard right now and

952
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:13.880
run into a flesh and blood Bigfoot, because that's cool,

953
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:15.679
and that's what I was sold in the beginning. You know,

954
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:23.199
as I've gone further down this path, specifically the path

955
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.679
that took me through ecology of souls, looking at the

956
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:30.440
way that that death interfaces with these phenomena and Fourth

957
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:33.079
Wall phantoms, looking at the way imagination interfaces with all

958
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:38.079
these phenomena, I'm not sure how much of this doesn't

959
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:40.079
come from us. And again I'm not saying that it's

960
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:42.000
all in people's heads, and I'm not saying that people

961
00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:43.679
are crazy, and I'm not saying any of this stuff.

962
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:45.639
I'm saying that, like there's something about us that can

963
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:49.800
exteriorize and or the distinctions between us and other things

964
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:51.639
and us and other people. Obviously with us and other

965
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:56.840
entities intelligences, that's much more illusory than we think it is,

966
00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:59.599
like there's a certain oneness that undergirds everything. So, yeah,

967
00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:01.880
I think that there's something to that, but I think

968
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:04.119
it's I think it's less of the idea that like, oh,

969
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:06.559
we're all projecting these things as thought forms or something.

970
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:08.719
I think what it really implies is that there is

971
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:15.559
a a substrate of reality that doesn't recognize things like

972
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:21.079
living or dead or extinct or alive or fantasy in fiction.

973
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.360
I think that that is there, and sometimes it bubbles

974
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:25.719
up and you can call that a lot of things.

975
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:27.119
You can call that the other world, you can call

976
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:28.960
it fairyland, you can call it the imaginal, you can

977
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.159
call it a lot of different things. But I think

978
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:33.440
that might be what we're seeing and our human consciousness is.

979
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:35.920
I'm sort of mixing a bunch of different metaphors here,

980
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.639
so forget yeah, no, but I'm going to sort of

981
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:41.199
imply bring into the conversation one of the metaphors that

982
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:43.960
Carl Jung used with synchronicities. I think that the human

983
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.000
consciousness is a bit like it's a bit like a

984
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:49.280
sailing ship. You know, we're sailing the ocean, and that's

985
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.119
what we see. And meanwhile, there is a sea floor

986
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:55.679
underneath this where all this stuff is connected, right, And

987
00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:57.719
we just see these little islands that pop up every

988
00:49:57.719 --> 00:49:59.519
now and then. And it doesn't necessarily mean it's not

989
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:01.960
a part of reality, but it's you know, it's it's

990
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:05.639
just something that becomes more apparent in certain moments. That's

991
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:07.719
not much way of an example, but I will say

992
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.679
in general, I've moved much less from like there are

993
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:16.920
discrete entities that look like X, Y, Z, and more

994
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:22.519
into like the idea of spirits and what our spirits are,

995
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:24.760
the archetypes or they because you know, we say spirits

996
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.920
and people space you say spirits, especially if you have

997
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.639
a Christian background, and people are like, oh, you think

998
00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:30.800
it's all angels or demons. That's not at all what

999
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:33.320
I'm saying. That's why ecology of souls is called ecology

1000
00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:35.960
of souls, right, But I definitely move into that sort

1001
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.280
of more metaphysical space, that spirit space, and that archetypal space.

1002
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.480
I think these are all sort of dancing around the

1003
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:44.400
same sort of substrate that I alluded to earlier. That's

1004
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.000
a rambling answer, and I'm sorry for it, but that's probably.

1005
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:49.000
The best I've got because it's not a it's it's

1006
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:53.920
a difficult question, right, and we're talking about this breadth

1007
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:57.480
of knowledge and or you know, it's a big high

1008
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:03.639
stringens as a large genre, right because unfortunately, yeah, you

1009
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.880
can nuance it down and put everything in its own niche, right,

1010
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:12.199
but let's be honest, we didn't really do that.

1011
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:15.559
And well, that's something that like I increasingly run out

1012
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:18.239
of patience for, is that, like, there are two people

1013
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.519
in this field. There are the people who think that

1014
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:22.599
these are all separate things, and they're the people who

1015
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:25.280
have actually read a lot of books, you know, And

1016
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:27.719
that's that's a harsh thing to say, yeah, the harsh

1017
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:31.000
thing to say. But like you can only like a

1018
00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:33.880
classic example, I keep running into these stories. I hope

1019
00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:36.760
to pursue this in more depth one day, but like

1020
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:39.559
you run into these stories where people are the only

1021
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:42.719
person awake in their camp while it's under attack from Bigfoot,

1022
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:45.280
and they're beating on the chests of other people trying

1023
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:47.760
to wake them up and they won't wake up. And

1024
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:49.719
then you hear that in an alien abduction, and then

1025
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:51.239
you hear that in a fairy story, and I have

1026
00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:55.519
the receipts for those, right, that's specific, and that's weird,

1027
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:57.440
and like, it'll be weird to me if these things

1028
00:51:57.480 --> 00:51:59.920
weren't related and they still sort of manifested those things.

1029
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:02.320
You've got the smells, you've got the food taboo, you've

1030
00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:06.440
got the association to death. You've got the buzzing sounds

1031
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:10.480
and humming sounds. You've got all sorts of stuff that's

1032
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:13.199
before even getting into how like near death experiences and

1033
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:16.239
shamanic initiations look like alien abductions. I'm like, it does

1034
00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:18.480
seem to be the same space that we go to,

1035
00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:21.639
and I'm not sure that. I'm not sure that it's

1036
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:23.760
the same thing. Nobody who tells you that they're sure

1037
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.639
of anything in this is telling the truth, right, But

1038
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:29.519
I cannot shake the sense that, like, if these things

1039
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:31.960
are not the same thing, they are related. And those

1040
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.639
Venn diagrams overlap a lot. Yeah, And again, I'm sorry

1041
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:37.559
if that was kind of of ours thing to say,

1042
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:40.599
but like, I see so many there's so many similarities,

1043
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:41.880
and you just got to look for them, and you've

1044
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:44.360
got to have you've got to be well informed in parapsychology,

1045
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:46.280
and you've got to be well informed in neuthology and

1046
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:48.679
well informed in cryptology. And only then do these things

1047
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:51.000
start to interplay in your mind and play together.

1048
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:56.159
And I think it's just all overwhelming. And I think

1049
00:52:56.199 --> 00:53:00.599
it's overwhelming as somebody that's into all of it. And

1050
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:05.039
I I what I've come to realize over the last

1051
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:09.880
year is really that I I'm exploring the connections between

1052
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:16.519
these That's my big thing, right, isn't so much you know,

1053
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:20.519
bigfoot or cryptids and then UFOs like I, Yes, they're

1054
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:25.719
all separate, but I I think, as we've I've said exhaustively,

1055
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:30.280
they all rhyme. So I think you're you're hitting the

1056
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:33.920
correct nail with with your with your stuff here. I

1057
00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:37.360
I just it's it's all like a big giant thread

1058
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:43.519
through all of your work, is like this folkloric stuff

1059
00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:48.480
and the energies and the you said, the sounds, the smells,

1060
00:53:48.679 --> 00:53:51.679
I mean, we didn't even talk about smells. And it's

1061
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.280
all just so much.

1062
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:57.119
So I mean, it's and it can be overwhelming. And

1063
00:53:57.159 --> 00:53:58.760
that's why I think that sometimes the best way to

1064
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.440
approach it is to is to tackle these smaller bits.

1065
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:03.400
You know, so I can still hear you, but your

1066
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.320
face is frozen.

1067
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:06.599
Something doesn't want people to hear this.

1068
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:10.079
Right, Yeah, that's it was funny the first like forty

1069
00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:11.880
times I made that joke, and then I was like, okay,

1070
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:12.880
so right.

1071
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:17.159
Now it's true though. Stuff happens. So what I'd like,

1072
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.840
unless you have something else that this is the thing,

1073
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:23.639
anything else that you'd like to say other than where

1074
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:26.920
can people find your work and what's next for you?

1075
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:29.960
I would just encourage people who are into this to

1076
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.280
get weird and to get a niche, right, and to

1077
00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:35.239
look at things that have not been explored, because you

1078
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:37.679
can never tell what sort of rewards you'll find. I mean,

1079
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:39.360
there's a book that I keep on wanting to pick up,

1080
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:40.679
and I have not picked it up yet, but there's

1081
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:44.800
a book on these stories of like quadrupedal bigfoot sightings

1082
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:48.239
that came out recently. I'm like, Oh, that's that's my jam,

1083
00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:50.639
Like I can't wait to read it because it's that's

1084
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:53.559
exactly the sort of thing that like I hate to

1085
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:55.639
tell you, you're not going to solve the mystery of UFOs.

1086
00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:57.000
You're not going to solve the mystery of ghosts. You're

1087
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:59.960
not going to solve the mystery of bigfoot. So why

1088
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:02.880
you take one little thing instead of by you know,

1089
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.880
instead of instead of trying to wrap your mouth around

1090
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:07.199
the entire pie, why don't you take a slice of

1091
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:09.239
the pie and try to, you know, do your best

1092
00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:10.800
with that. So that would be my sort of words

1093
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:16.519
of encouragement. You can find me at joshuacutcheon dot com.

1094
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:19.239
Any events that pop up or news that pops up

1095
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:21.559
will be listed there on that website, and you can

1096
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:24.119
also find links to all of my interviews as well

1097
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:27.320
as all my books, and how to get copies straight

1098
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:29.679
from me that are signed by me at no extra charge.

1099
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:32.360
I do that in the continental United States because you know,

1100
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.039
I think it's nice. It's nice to be able to

1101
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.960
send people signed copies, and you know it cuts out

1102
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:39.519
the middleman too, so it's nice, yes.

1103
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:41.079
Big time for sure.

1104
00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:41.440
Yeah.

1105
00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:43.519
One of the things I did see at your website,

1106
00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:45.719
which is cool, is you do a lot of appearances.

1107
00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:48.880
Not as many as i'd like, Yeah, right, but there's

1108
00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:50.000
a decent amount there.

1109
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:53.519
Yeah. Yeah, And you know I have to be I

1110
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:55.280
have to be I have to sort of this is

1111
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:57.360
usually a private conversation that I have, but like I

1112
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.280
have tried to be aware of when I'm complaining about

1113
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:02.639
not going to McDonald's all the time, when I'm having

1114
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:04.639
steak dinners, you know what I mean. So, like a

1115
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:07.280
good example of that is is this year, you know,

1116
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:09.840
I don't have a lot of conference appearances, but at

1117
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.159
the end of the year, I am attending the Esslon

1118
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:16.199
Institute with Jeff Kripel and Kevin Kan as their workshop assistant.

1119
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:19.320
And Esslon's been on my bucket list for a long time,

1120
00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:22.800
the birthplace of the Human Potential movement in the United States.

1121
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:25.119
So just to do that, to spend time with those

1122
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:28.840
two individuals as something that's a real put privilege. So yeah,

1123
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:31.000
but anybody's listening to this, invite me to your event,

1124
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:34.719
no speaker fee, just see that I can get out

1125
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:36.239
there and see that I've got a roof over my

1126
00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:37.280
head and we're good to go.

1127
00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:41.719
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, Josh, thank you so much for coming on.

1128
00:56:41.960 --> 00:56:45.280
Well, it's been absolutely wonderful, and really it's been a

1129
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:46.719
great way to start the day, and it's been a

1130
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:49.480
great conversation. And I always like it when you know

1131
00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:53.000
I as as sort of a parting bit of not advice,

1132
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:55.199
but it's a parting bit of camaraderie. You know, I

1133
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:58.519
do a lot of podcasts and everyone is I really

1134
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:03.079
respect everyone's work into it. But there are these conversations

1135
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:06.039
where I can say something and people understand what I mean,

1136
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:08.760
where we can leave, we can leave frag ahead a

1137
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:11.320
couple of steps, and this has been one of the

1138
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:12.480
So thank you so much for that.

1139
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:16.360
Yes, awesome, glad to hear it. I appreciate you.

1140
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:18.480
It's been a blast anytime.

1141
00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:26.400
He who controls the mind controls the war. But first

1142
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:28.639
he must silence the noise.

1143
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:34.159
Yeah, straight from the catacombs where the scrolls was hidden,

1144
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:38.440
Whining monks chant versus in the Watchman's Risen broadcast to

1145
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:39.199
see son.

1146
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:40.480
It ain't just a show.

1147
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.599
It's a frequency shift from the realm below the encrypto

1148
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:48.840
speech from the outer courts with the bloodline of kings

1149
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:52.960
and celestial reports god en for lump second a backpack

1150
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:56.159
word while these reptile suits try to sense of the

1151
00:57:56.239 --> 00:57:59.719
word yo, why steps through portals with the micas my chorch,

1152
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.960
dropping sermons so raw they send drunks to the porch.

1153
00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:06.679
They surveil what I spit can't silence the flame got

1154
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:10.679
angels and camera with encrypted names. Were talking black ops

1155
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:13.960
and black robes, falling stars with zip codes, Temple scrolls

1156
00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:16.559
and tom codst Peace with ten horns and stealth mode

1157
00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:19.360
from Mount Herman and the Grand Canyon faults with a

1158
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:23.360
Smith Sony and beeries Humanity's folks. But we dig with

1159
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.639
the pins slight slides with the flow like Eplijah on

1160
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:29.719
the mountain when the fire hit the show. Yo, this

1161
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:33.920
is spiritual warfare and Steveriyo Holy scripts flipping through the

1162
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:39.440
technicolor Ferrigo. No fiction, just friction between realms, dropping balls

1163
00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:43.039
like Prophecy with Angelly Helm. So when you tune in,

1164
00:58:43.559 --> 00:58:46.639
just know what it is. It's ancient world drums, not

1165
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:50.480
a podcast for kids. It's the Watch Tour Gospel wrapped

1166
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:54.320
in grit broadcast. The Seeds were the last ones. Legit,

1167
00:58:55.199 --> 00:58:59.239
straight truth, no floor rod filter, ghost in the wires

1168
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:02.000
with the soul look for billed up. Welcome to the

1169
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.480
front lines, the kingdom cries out, So grab your arm

1170
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:08.960
and your mic and cast a cut out.

1171
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.840
I want to swetch your homes and the Texas Senda's

1172
00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:15.239
prisons it's water wicking tip. Drews, drew